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Thread: Is my rear end shmucked?

  1. #1
    Member dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7's Avatar
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    Is my rear end shmucked?

    Hey Guys,

    As you can see, my rear end is a mess. I took my car to DreamTire in burlington and they told me they wouldn't touch the rear end (and therefore, wont align it either). Can any of you guys who have a lot of experience with alignments, suspension geometry and get a read on what may be damaged based on the numbers below. (I will try to load up a picture)

    1 - please comment on what parts you think may be damaged and how badly?

    2 - please tell me if shifting the rear beam to "middle" the camber and using shims would be enough to bring me back into the norm?

    Thanks fellas

    (((These are post alignment numbers)))

    Driver Front Camber -0.9 Toe 0.02
    Pass Front Camber -0.1 Toe 0.00
    Steer Ahead 0.01

    Driver Rear Camber -1.9 Toe 0.32
    Pass Rear Camber -1.1 Toe 0.18
    Total Toe 0.50
    Thrust Angle 0.07
    vroom vroom, clank.........crap!

  2. #2
    Moderator wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons's Avatar
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    Did they say what factory specs are? I would bet there's supposed to be at least -0.5 up front and -1.0 out back. The rear toe doesn't sound abnormal either.
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    Senior Member yamahammer is a jewel in the rough yamahammer is a jewel in the rough yamahammer is a jewel in the rough yamahammer is a jewel in the rough yamahammer's Avatar
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    I took a pic of my printout from my vw from a few years back.

    Hope it helps

    "Nobody screws with Boris Grishenko, Spike them!"

  4. #4
    Member dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7's Avatar
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    Here is the print out from my alignment.
    Last edited by dub_0_7; 12-14-2011 at 02:33 PM. Reason: fixed
    vroom vroom, clank.........crap!

  5. #5
    Member dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7's Avatar
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    The left rear at -1.9 deg is what freaks me out. -1.0 is the max rear camber that falls within spec - so I'm a whole degree more than that. My card has been eating rear tires (more noticeable with 18" summers than with my 16" winters) and they didn't touch my rear end, so I need to try and figure this out before I chew through my next set.

    I'd also rather not rip off my stub axles for inspection if I don't have to - but it may be the only way for me to know if it's the stubs or the axle/subframe.
    vroom vroom, clank.........crap!

  6. #6
    Moderator wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons's Avatar
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    ^^ If you look at the above chart, it says rear camber should be between -1.3 and -1.6, so -1.9 isn't WAY out by any means.
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  7. #7
    Member dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7's Avatar
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    I understand/appreciate that - but it doesn't change the fact that the inside of my tires for the last 3 sets have been getting worn out within a season of use.

    I dont know if alignments actually measure the contact points your tires make on the ground, or if it just measures the angles of the suspension parts that are assumed to hold your wheels on the appropriate angles? - - What I'm getting at - is it possible that a failing rear spring, or shock mount or something stupid like a wheel bearing could affect tire wear and not show up as "bad" alignment?

    *notes*
    1. I've tried bouncing the rear end of the car, and the rebound is controlled within 2 bounces on either side.

    2. There is no major creaking coming from the rear end when driving, and I've had the rear beam bushings checked - they've already been replaced.

    3. The wheel gap between the top of the tire and the wheel well is an inch(1") less on the driver rear than the passenger rear.
    vroom vroom, clank.........crap!

  8. #8
    Moderator soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute soundwave has a reputation beyond repute
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    there's a rear beam for 40$ on vortex i believe thread was called "MK4 parts" or something
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    Veteran Member Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb has a reputation beyond repute Neb's Avatar
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    If it's 1" more drop on the passenger side and .9 degrees more camber that makes sense you're getting more wear. I would get new rear springs (or swap spring sides to confirm the spring is worn out)
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    Moderator wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons has a reputation beyond repute wparsons's Avatar
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    Hold up, I think I mis-read that before.... Is it actually sitting an inch lower at one corner? That's definitely the reason you're seeing excessive wear.
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  11. #11
    Member dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7 is just really nice dub_0_7's Avatar
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    I would have thought the 'driver' side gap being almost an inch less (sitting lower) and having the extra -0.8 camber would be causing the problem - and that has left me wondering what the culprit could be.

    Can worn springs actually cause CAMBER? If so....fine - but when I bounce the car, all four corners control the rebound equally well, no more than 2 bounces........That's what leaves me miffed.

    * * * *

    Can someone who has experience with their mk4 rear end tell me what the "sane" sequence is of checking things to deduce the problem, before I seriously consider sourcing a good beam and replacing that?

    I do my homework - but there isnt a thread anywhere that looks at testing/diagnosing all the components that can cause misalignment in the mk4 solid beam rear ends.
    vroom vroom, clank.........crap!

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops has a reputation beyond repute Chops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dub_0_7 View Post
    I would have thought the 'driver' side gap being almost an inch less (sitting lower) and having the extra -0.8 camber would be causing the problem - and that has left me wondering what the culprit could be.

    Can worn springs actually cause CAMBER? If so....fine - but when I bounce the car, all four corners control the rebound equally well, no more than 2 bounces........That's what leaves me miffed.

    * * * *

    Can someone who has experience with their mk4 rear end tell me what the "sane" sequence is of checking things to deduce the problem, before I seriously consider sourcing a good beam and replacing that?

    I do my homework - but there isnt a thread anywhere that looks at testing/diagnosing all the components that can cause misalignment in the mk4 solid beam rear ends.
    im a few beers in right now but when you bounce the car and check for rebound thats testing shocks....thats all i got....sorry i cant help more

  13. #13
    Veteran Member dubonic possesion has much to be proud of dubonic possesion has much to be proud of dubonic possesion has much to be proud of dubonic possesion has much to be proud of dubonic possesion has much to be proud of dubonic possesion has much to be proud of dubonic possesion has much to be proud of dubonic possesion has much to be proud of dubonic possesion's Avatar
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    this sounds like you've got a broken spring, all bouncing the car will do for you is check your strut/shock, i'd bet my money that if you puled both rear springs one will be broken off. THIS WILL CAUSE IMPROPER TIRE WEAR. this will also cause improper weight balance for your suspension components and throw off your camber, look at any statically lowered vw, the lower you go the more camber you gain, its just the nature of suspension geometry. get new rear springs
    Well, excuse me, for having ENORMOUS flaws, that i don't work on !
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  14. #14
    Veteran Member BellCityDubber is a splendid one to behold BellCityDubber is a splendid one to behold BellCityDubber is a splendid one to behold BellCityDubber is a splendid one to behold BellCityDubber is a splendid one to behold BellCityDubber is a splendid one to behold BellCityDubber is a splendid one to behold BellCityDubber is a splendid one to behold BellCityDubber's Avatar
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    ^ I'm with dubonic.... had this on one of my mk2s when I got it, replaced spring... problem solved.

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    Senior Member Dejan33 is a splendid one to behold Dejan33 is a splendid one to behold Dejan33 is a splendid one to behold Dejan33 is a splendid one to behold Dejan33 is a splendid one to behold Dejan33 is a splendid one to behold Dejan33's Avatar
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    Time to get some coils and slam the bitch
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