APR & Other Tuning Software Discussion (Moved from BCD Thread)

[CommradePolski]

I dont think tech9 offered switching through the cruise control. I think all the others did though.

[Raz]

I know, I was kidding anyways. Even if they did offer it, where could you find the info now?

[CaptainSlow]

Maybe its not APR chipped? GIAC or someone else may also have the ability to change the program through the cruise control.

GIAC wants you to purchase their flash loader. Extra $150 which bites. In other words, you don't use the cruise control stalk Polski.

Best way to determine if its chipped is to contact APR and ask them how to find out?

[Raz]

Line up with a friend or someone you know with a stock AWP 1.8T, be cruising at say 40kmh in 2nd and both stomp it. If you pull away, you're chipped. That or your friend has reflexes like a sloth.

That is, if with all the blinking and stalk switching, you haven't turned it off.

[Lava_A3]

Maybe its not APR chipped? GIAC or someone else may also have the ability to change the program through the cruise control.

Only APR has switching through the cruise control. they own the rights to it, and thus all others must be switch via a VAG COM cable or pocket/card loader switch ie GIAC/REVO.

[CommradePolski]

That I didnt know. I was just making a suggestion.

[LuiTuga]

That I didnt know. I was just making a suggestion.

That's the idea... I'm gonna be "suggesting" about a brain procedure later on...

[Lava_A3]

That's the idea... I'm gonna be "suggesting" about a brain procedure later on...

I'm going be "suggesting" that you post some pics of that brain procedure!

[footose]

Only APR has switching through the cruise control. they own the rights to it, and thus all others must be switch via a VAG COM cable or pocket/card loader switch ie GIAC/REVO.

I highly doubt they own rights to anything like that.

All of these companies are hacking a piece of software (the OEM ECU). There are no 'rights' to be had when you hack software.

APR doesn't own rights to the OEM vw cruise controls stalk.

I'm sure the reason is because they have different business models, or the other tuners haven't figured out how to do it yet.

[footose]

If you want to check if its chipped or not, get a VAGCOM or a Boostgauge.

[Lava_A3]

I highly doubt they own rights to anything like that.

All of these companies are hacking a piece of software (the OEM ECU). There are no 'rights' to be had when you hack software.

APR doesn't own rights to the OEM vw cruise controls stalk.

I'm sure the reason is because they have different business models, or the other tuners haven't figured out how to do it yet.

MR. Technical all of a sudden, the method of being able to switch programs through the cruise control is patented

EMCS is APR's revolutionary patent pending Enhanced Modular Chipping System. EMCS is an industry leading technology that brings many new features to the automotive enthusiast. This technology was developed exclusively by Audi Performance & Racing, LLC and demonstrates APR's continued commitment to lead the industry with the most technologically advanced products available.

[footose]

patent pending, means absolutely nothing at all. A design is not protected until the Patent is published or issued.

APR's patent on this was never published, (not that i can find). Reason is probably because they can't patent something they didn't design (aka, the Cruise Control Stalk).

It's like saying you are going to patent your mirror in your car because you hung a CD from it.

[Lava_A3]

Yeah but who is going to try an take APR? If the other 2 of the big 3 ( Revo/GIAC/APR) cant even come close and have reverted to flash loaders, who is going to break there encrypted software and copy there EMCS? Tech9?

[footose]

And I'm not saying that this can be another piece of software, as far as I'm aware, APR is the only current chip company that offers it.

But saying that no one else can have it because APR has a patent on it, is ridiculous.

[footose]

Yeah but who is going to try an take APR? If the other 2 of the big 3 ( Revo/GIAC/APR) cant even come close and have reverted to flash loaders, who is going to break there encrypted software and copy there EMCS? Tech9?

You don't have to "copy" it, as long as you can write your own you're fine. Same principle applies.

Just because phpBB is a piece of forum software for the internet, doesn't mean vBulletin can sue them. Unless they took part of their code, and they can prove they took it.

There is nothing to "take on". If you design it yourself, there is nothing that can be done.

[Lava_A3]

But what are the odds of that patent not coming to be issued? No one else even comes close to there R&D, resources, Engineering, or money to burn.

[footose]

But what are the odds of that patent not coming to be issued?

It's been 10 years.

Currently, there is no accepted method for patenting software. You can have copyright infringement, if they can prove it.

[CaptainSlow]

you girls are driving me nuts.

Giac wants you to buy their flash loader... APR out does them by allowing you to do it with the cruise control stalk (don't need a loader). But they charge 50 more for their tune. It's all money game boys.

[Lava_A3]

You don't have to "copy" it, as long as you can write your own you're fine. Same principle applies.

Just because phpBB is a piece of forum software for the internet, doesn't mean vBulletin can sue them. Unless they took part of their code, and they can prove they took it.

There is nothing to "take on". If you design it yourself, there is nothing that can be done.

But if it was that 'easy' then why wouldnt REVO/GIAC tried? i dont think they want anyting to do we it. They aim themselves at a different market in the sense that APR is going for the customer that wants the smooth power and wants to be able to flip back and forth for track event or dealership visit. While REVO/GIAC aim themselves at we make the most power and a faster chip then APR (which they do) and are customer want to be faster all the time.

Not to mention the fact that REVO/GIAC are also happy where they are because there programs sell for less then any APR, and more then likely that is do a bit for the name, and be APR put much more R&D time into there files. WHen the FSI Engine came out APR was last to come to the plate with a working file, but it didnt need updates either

[footose]

Giac wants you to buy their flash loader... APR out does them by allowing you to do it with the cruise control stalk (don't need a loader). But they charge 50 more for their tune. It's all money game boys.

^^ Exactly what I said.

Has nothing to do with the "patent pending" or the technology at all.

[footose]

But if it was that 'easy' then why wouldnt REVO/GIAC tried? i dont think they want anyting to do we it. They aim themselves at a different market in the sense that APR is going for the customer that wants the smooth power and wants to be able to flip back and forth for track event or dealership visit. While REVO/GIAC aim themselves at we make the most power and a faster chip then APR (which they do) and are customer want to be faster all the time.

The REASON is because they are going after different markets.

REVO's flash unit just doesn't' change chips, it allows you to do things a 'cruise control' wouldn't' allow you to do, such as changing your timing, boost and fueling with a switch. That is there marketing strategy.

Unitronics likey hasn't figured out how to do it. They probably use a KWJ2000 programmer or something with modified stock maps. There market is people with BT's that want custom programming, except for maybe accusations of people trying to copy their software.

Not to mention the fact that REVO/GIAC are also happy where they are because there programs sell for less then any APR, and more then likely that is do a bit for the name, and be APR put much more R&D time into there files. WHen the FSI Engine came out APR was last to come to the plate with a working file, but it didnt need updates either

I don't understand how any of these 'facts' have anything to do with programming the cruise control switch to act as a switching control.

The underlying 'fact' is that REVO already does this, they just do it in a different way.

And i never said it was easy, all i said was that they don't have a patent on it and other companies would do it if they wanted to or knew how to do it and the reprocutions would be minimal.

[Lava_A3]

^^ Exactly what I said.

Has nothing to do with the "patent pending" or the technology at all.

Sure it has to be at some level, if everyone 'could' write a program that could be switched through the cruise they would. I dont believe that they arent doing this way cause they dont want to !

[CaptainSlow]

I wish we had open source tuning software like the Subaru guys. I'm going to research on how to tune the stock ecu myself cause I don't wanna give jason $1000

[Lava_A3]

The REASON is because they are going after different markets.

REVO's flash unit just doesn't' change chips, it allows you to do things a 'cruise control' wouldn't' allow you to do, such as changing your timing, boost and fueling with a switch. That is there marketing strategy.

Unitronics likey hasn't figured out how to do it. They probably use a KWJ2000 programmer or something with modified stock maps. There market is people with BT's that want custom programming.



I don't understand how any of these 'facts' have anything to do with programming the cruise control switch to act as a switching control.

There not 'facts' and there is definitely an element or marketing cause when it all comes down to the consumer level its all about bang for the bucks. there will always be a market for something that offers similar performance at a lesser price. But there is also a market for a slightly more expensive option that gives you the technology to switch files w/out a loader/VAG COM

[footose]

Oh yah, and REVO probably didn't program theirs to be like APR, because they were already being sued by APR because REVO was ex-employee's of APR and APR accused them of stealing their code, tried to sue them and absolutely nothing happened.

Reason: How can you sue someone when the person suing is already "stealing" the stock maps and modifying them?

[CaptainSlow]

[Lava_A3]

I wish we had open source tuning software like the Subaru guys. I'm going to research on how to tune the stock ecu myself cause I don't wanna give jason $1000

i rather not pay a thousand bucks too, but your time has to have a price too...if it takes you a week to fine tune a program on a 'open source' system a 700 dollar program that loaded on in 15 mins is worth it when you consider the loss in your time.

[Lava_A3]

Oh yah, and REVO probably didn't program theirs to be like APR, because they were already being sued by APR because REVO was ex-employee's of APR and APR accused them of stealing their code, tried to sue them and absolutely nothing happened.

Reason: How can you sue someone when the person suing is already "stealing" the stock maps and modifying them?

you couldnt, it wouldnt happen on any day. If you could there would only be one company selling chips, because with a slight variance in performance and smoothness there all the same shit to an extent.

As long as they arent EXACTLY the same nothing will ever come of it!

[CaptainSlow]

SEe thats the difference, I want the glory, not sign a cheque.

I just want to lower my A/F to 11.7-12.0 and add some correction factors. Done. worth a grand?

[Lava_A3]

SEe thats the difference, I want the glory, not sign a cheque.

I just want to lower my A/F to 11.7-12.0 and add some correction factors. Done. worth a grand?

Yeah but how long you figure it would take you to do that? Its not as easy as it sounds or these companies would be out of jobs

Looks at Shawn's build thread, and ok i accept the fact that his wanst a production car like the rest of ours or even the same ECU system, but even the smallest changes took a long time, logging, fucking around and it all results in downtime, there gonna be a price to pay to avoid all of that